Rumor of One? No, of the little rings

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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:20 pm

Though now another question occurs to me: by this logic, would Rumor of the One cause Mind Rings to be worth 1 MP for Fallen Wizards, since they're not "modifying" these cards; they're making an item give MPs that previously gave no MPs?

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Gwaihir
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Post by Gwaihir » Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:51 pm

Yes sir :) Any "ring", so that's all items with the keyword Ring (Dwarven Ring, Mind Ring, etc.) and / or of the class Gold Ring Item.

The only surprise in there is that the Wizard's Ring lacks such a keyword and is thus in this game not threated as a ring.

Split this off from here into a new topic under Rules Questions
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Lord Leuber
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Post by Lord Leuber » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:28 pm

So how does Rumor of the One interact with Blind to all Else?

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Post by henrikbe » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:50 am

Bandobras Took wrote:...since they're not "modifying" these cards; they're making an item give MPs that previously gave no MPs?
What do you mean with "not modifying"? +1 to the MPs of all rings is modifying MPs, isn't it?
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Post by Bandobras Took » Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:30 pm

The previous half of the discussion is in the tips & tricks forum, where the overwhelming concensus was that when Whispers of Rings said that the item "gives no MPs," this didn't count as modifying the MPs.

My question is the reverse: if an item gives no MPs, does making it give MPs count as modifying or not?

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Post by henrikbe » Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:58 pm

+1 MP is clearly modifying, IMHO. Even if it's 0 MP +1 MP = 1 MP.

Whispers of Rings is special because it says "This item gives no marshalling points." The item still has MPs, but it won't give them to you :)  This is not a modification of the MPs, and is in no way similar to the effect of Rumour of the One on the mind rings.
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Post by Konrad Klar » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:17 pm

henrikbe wrote:+1 MP is clearly modifying, IMHO. Even if it's 0 MP +1 MP = 1 MP.

Whispers of Rings is special because it says "This item gives no marshalling points." The item still has MPs, but it won't give them to you :)  This is not a modification of the MPs, and is in no way similar to the effect of Rumour of the One on the mind rings.
0 MP (CP, prowess) is not equal to "no MP" (CP, prowess). Prowess of Goldberry can not be modified during combat by e.g. Clear Skies by +2. Would be modified if prowess of Goldberry would be 0, which is not.
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Post by Bandobras Took » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:40 pm

So if mind rings are considered to give no MPs and Rumor can't affect them therefore, the Mind Ring Monstrosity deck is no longer so much of a monstrosity.

Or is Rumor considered to make an item (that previously did not give MPs) give MPs?

Or does Rumor change each Mind Ring so that instead of giving no MPs, they are considered to give 0 MPs + 1 MP?

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Post by Konrad Klar » Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:19 pm

I think, that nonexisting value cannot be modified. Similary bodycheck for failed strikes with no body is not made (instead making bodycheck on 0). Card Helms of Iron make clear distinction between 0 body and "no body".
Helms of Iron
Playable only if you have a Nazgűl permanent-event in play. Discard the Nazgűl when this card is brought into play. All Orc, Troll, and Man attacks with body have their body modified by +1; and all Orc, Troll, and Man attacks with no body have 4 body.  ...on the front of their iron hems was an S-rune, wrought of some white metal.-LotRIII
The Balance of Things cannot double CP for e.g. Ent-draught, which is not source of corruption.
Other example:
Stay Her Appetite
Playable on an ally. Make a roll (draw a #). If the result plus the ally's mind is greater than your opponent's general unused influence plus its controlling character's unused direct influence plus 2, the ally attacks its controlling character (detainment attack against a hero). This attack has 1 strike and prowess equal to the ally's normal prowess plus a dice roll (drawn #). Discard the ally if it attacks and is not defeated.
And CRF:
Stay Her Appetite
Card Erratum: Change "plus two" to "plus five." [Effective 11/3/97] If Stay Her
Appetite is played on an ally with no prowess, there is no attack, but all other affects
of the card apply.
"There is no attack" instead attack with 1 strike and prowess equal to 0 plus a dice roll (drawn #).

Other treatment of question of Mind Rings and Rumour of the One seems to me as inconsistent.
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