Under His Blow vs Detainment... Under His Blow Wins.

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Ringbearer
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Under His Blow vs Detainment... Under His Blow Wins.

Post by Ringbearer » Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:16 am

My minion character faces a detaintment attack. When I play Under His Blow, what happens:

A: The character receives no -3, but must roll and tap if he loses.

B: Under His Blow prevents the tapping against a strike, so the detainment tap doesnt work either.


After consulting the NetRep, answer B is chosen.
Last edited by Ringbearer on Wed May 10, 2006 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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melkor_morgoth75
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Post by melkor_morgoth75 » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:32 pm

He simply doesn't tap ... theorically you don't need to roll (but for the rules you must roll anyway  :wink: )

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Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:47 pm

Under His Blow

Untapped character does not tap against one strike.
Let's not go too quickly, here . . . a literal reading of the card says nothing about receiving no -3 penalty.  All it says is that the character does not tap against the strike.

The question is whether the character could still be tapped as a result of the strike.

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Sauron
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Post by Sauron » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:50 pm

If under his blow is like block or dodge, I dont' have the card right in front of me, you would indeed not get the -3 penalty against the strike, but the result of the strike could still tap you.

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Post by melkor_morgoth75 » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:54 pm

Card should take precedence here ... so character shouldn't tap regardless of the result,

just my 2 cents,

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miguel
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Post by miguel » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:34 pm

The character gets no -3 prowess modification, and will not tap if the detainment strike is succesful (could still be wounded normally of course).

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Post by Jambo » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:42 pm

"character does not tap against one strike."

The wording is essentially the same as Block and Dodge, therefore it will play in the same way.  Character doesn't tap and doesn't get the -3 mod.  It mentions against one strike and so the result of a successful strike should remain unchanged.
Last edited by Jambo on Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sauron
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Post by Sauron » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:43 pm

miguel wrote:The character gets no -3 prowess modification, and will not tap if the detainment strike is succesful (could still be wounded normally of course).
How does one become wounded from a detainment attack? :P

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Post by miguel » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:45 pm

I was referring to the reason you thought the character would tap...  :wink:

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Ringbearer
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Post by Ringbearer » Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:01 pm

Jambo wrote:"character does not tap against one strike."

The wording is essentially the same as Block and Dodge, therefore it will play in the same way.
Maybe we can use Block and Dodge too to stay untapped when losing a detainment strike.
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miguel
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Post by miguel » Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:11 pm

CRF: Card Errata and Rulings:
Sable Shield

   * A bearer who did not tap while facing a strike will not tap if the strike is successful.
This leads me to believe the character stays untapped.

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Post by miguel » Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:18 pm

Block and Dodge were printed before detainment attacks existed. Blow Turned would be a better comparison:
Blow Turned

Warrior only. Warrior does not tap against one strike. If wounded by the strike, his body check is modified by -1.
Unless the character gets wounded, he stays untapped.

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Post by stone troll » Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:02 pm

I recall discussing this with Zara several months ago during an informal game fest as a result of Under His Blow's play during a LE sealed game.  IIRC, we both felt that the literal interpretation of the card text would favor not tapping even if the detainment strike was "successful".    

"Under His Blow" was part of the LE set, so one would assume that ICE was aware of detainment implications.  "Blow Turned" would also seem to prevent detainment tapping.

"Uruk Lt." tries to b-slap Shagrat, Shagrat ducks "Under His Blow", flips the Lt. off, and continues on his way  :)

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Post by Wacho » Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:07 pm

The character will tap if the detainment attack is successful.  Note this quote from the LE rulebook.
· Normally a character that is the target of a strike is tapped after the strike is resolved. However, a character may choose to take a -3 modification to his prowess to avoid being tapped. If so, the character is not tapped after the strike is resolved (he may still be wounded).
The language about tapping is essentially similar to that on Under his Blow, etc.  However you certainly can't get away with not being tapped by a detainment attack simply by deciding to take -3 and not tap.

Also this quote from the CRF:
When a strike from a detainment attack succeeds, the character who was facing that particular strike must tap.
If the strike succeeds the character MUST tap.  No getting around that.

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Post by miguel » Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:34 pm

Wacho wrote:If the strike succeeds the character MUST tap.  No getting around that.
Sable Shield gets around it...
Sable Shield

   * A bearer who did not tap while facing a strike will not tap if the strike is successful.
   * A detainment strike will not discard the Sable Shield.

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