Stormcrow and the removal of permanent-events

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Eyelid
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Stormcrow and the removal of permanent-events

Post by Eyelid » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:21 pm

Hello to all,

I was reading the game text of the card Stormcrow and a question started to arise.

Part of that card reads
Discard all resource permanent-events that have been played on each company with a Wizard (i.e., on the company as a whole, not individual characters, e.g., Fellowship).
I'd like to know if the discarding effect also applies to stored permanent-events that have been played on the company as a whole (such as To the Uttermost Foundations).

I understand stored cards are considered to be out of play, but they nevertheless have been played at one point.
If Stormcrow and cards with similar effects do not affect stored cards, is there a specific ruling that explains this?

Thanks for your help.

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Konrad Klar
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Re: Stormcrow and the removal of permanent-events

Post by Konrad Klar » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:52 pm

Eyelid wrote:I understand stored cards are considered to be out of play, but they nevertheless have been played at one point.
If Stormcrow and cards with similar effects do not affect stored cards, is there a specific ruling that explains this?
Good point.
Personally I think that it is one of example of careless style of ICE's wording.*
However I don't know any ruling specific to the Stormcrow or to this particular text.

*) How about:
Fever of Unrest wrote:A Dragon hazard creature can attack a company with four Wildernesses [w] in its site path. Alternatively, Leucaruth can attack a company with three Wildernesses [w] in her site path.  Perpetually angry and always prowling, the Worm of Ire suffers a restlessness that drives her onward to the spore of her hated Dwarven enemies.-Kuduk Lore
Has the Leucaruth its site path?
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Eyelid
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Post by Eyelid » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:05 pm

Thanks Konrad, I see what you mean.

I contacted Pete Fenlon a little while ago for other reasons, but I doubt he would want to lend the community a hand in rewording certain cards that need to be rephrased... :-)

I know certain cards specifically state that you can target a stored item for example, but here, as you implied, the wording leaves a little space open for interpretation.

If you had to rule, what would you say?

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Konrad Klar
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Post by Konrad Klar » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:33 pm

I think that making complicated ruling as workaround for imprecise text of particular card is bad idea. After all such ruling would be "hacked" by other imprecise text that exploits rule "card's text takes precedence over general rules", new ruling-workaround would be needed and so on...

Such complicated ruling that takes into account Stage Resources would be:

"Except of Stage Resources stored card cannot be discarded by effects that does not target it."

Sounds good? Not to me...
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Post by Bandobras Took » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:32 pm

A different way to read Stormcrow is to discard all resource permanent events that have been played, but only on each company with a wizard.

The phrase "on each company with a wizard" serves as a limit on which permanent events to discard.  Granted, "in play" would be better wording than "have been played," but the principle holds.
Call of Home wrote:Playable on a non-Wizard character that is not the bearer of The One Ring. The character's player must make a roll (or draw a #); return the character to the player's hand if the result plus his unused general influence is less than 10. Any one item held by a character removed in this fashion may automatically be transferred to another character in his company.
Likewise, if at one point this character held the Palantir of Osgiliath and then stored it, the Palantir could not be retrieved from storage and given to another character in the party.  The verb tense can be read that way, but the intent is clear.

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Eyelid
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Post by Eyelid » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:48 pm

--> Benjamin, thanks for your input. Your example clarifies the use of such cards.

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Stormcrow & Gates of Morning

Post by bulabula » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:56 am

Question - Does playing Stormcrow  discard your Gates of Morning?
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Post by Konrad Klar » Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:29 am

No.
Gates of Morning is never played on company. After all it may be played even if there is no company under control of player (which sometimes happens).
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