Card drawing conflict

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Halbarad
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Card drawing conflict

Post by Halbarad » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:32 pm

I have a question regarding Alatars card draw reducing. If His company moves to Bree, and uses Great road(doubles the amount of cards your opponent draws when moving to a site), which effect kicks in first? Alatars or Great roads? Will your opponent draw one or zero cards?

Thanks in advance,
Petter

asphalt
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Post by asphalt » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:10 pm

Great road says that your opponent can draw "up to twice the normal number of cards" that he could draw, Alatar says that your opponent is forced to draw 1 less card than he wants to.

Great Road kicks in for first: it works as if the maximum number of cards that can be drawn by your opponent was twice the number actually printed on the site card (e.g. "2" instead of "1" in the case of Bree), then Alatar's effect kicks in as second, letting your opponent only draw no more than 1.

To put things clearer, if you move to Moria with Great Road + Alatar, your opponent will be able to draw up to 5 cards (3x2-1).

I never thought about that, but I guess that your opponent could also declare that he wants to draw 1 only card, and thus draw 0 by effect of Alatar. This would turn out to be pretty useful if he didn't want his deck to go below 5 cards, in order to be able to sideboard in the following turn.

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Gwaihir
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Post by Gwaihir » Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:45 pm

asphalt wrote:Alatar says that your opponent is forced to draw 1 less card than he wants to.
You cannot know what I want..

IMHO it's one less card, period. So this part doesn't work:
I never thought about that, but I guess that your opponent could also declare that he wants to draw 1 only card, and thus draw 0 by effect of Alatar.
Per that logic, if he truly wants one card (and not zero), he'd be a fool not to state he wants two and get exactly what he wants..
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asphalt
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Post by asphalt » Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:01 pm

Gwaihir wrote:
asphalt wrote:Alatar says that your opponent is forced to draw 1 less card than he wants to.
You cannot know what I want..
I must admit that I'm still practicing to learn reading peolpe's mind :wink:  

What I meant is "because of Alatar you must stop drawing 1 card before you're done drawing": players draw cards up to the maximum after the new site is revealed, and they're free to choose whether stopping before drawing the maximum number of cards allowed (but they have to draw at least 1 card). Of course, you must declare when you're done drawing cards, in order for the playing of resources and hazs to begin.

In my second period I was refering to strategic (insincere) declaration of preferences, you reversed the reasoning: since Alatar's ability can force the opponent to draw 0 cards (say, you move to Cameth Brin w/out playing Great Road: opponent draws 0 cards), and you are not forced to draw all the cards you're allowed to, I guess Alatar's ability can let you draw 0 cards even not forcefully. It is a rather theoretical situation, but sometimes you may want to manage carefully the playing and drawing of cards, say, when you want to avoid exhausting your play deck in order to keep Bane of the Ithil Stone  in play, or for some other reason...

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