Black Rider and Black Horse

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Eyelid
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Black Rider and Black Horse

Post by Eyelid » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:41 pm

Hello to the faithful rules guardians,

I'd like to give Minion play a go, but since this would be my first time, I'd like to have something clarified before I submit to the Dark Lord.

Specifically, I'd like to know exactly how long the effect of Black Rider lasts.
Same question for the Ally Black Horse, since it puts my Ringwraith(s) in Black Rider mode.
Black Rider mode. Playable at a Darkhaven during the organization phase on your Ringwraith's own company. The company may move to a non-Darkhaven site. Discard this card and any other Ringwraith followers in the company during any of your following organization phases the company is at a Darkhaven [V]. Cannot be duplicated on a given company.
Playable on a Ringwraith at a Darkhaven [V] (does not tap the site). Each Black Horse in your Ringwraith's company allows you to play one Ringwraith follower who requires no direct influence to control. If each Ringwraith in a company has a Black Horse, the company is in Black Rider mode and may freely move (using starter movement). You may include up to nine copies of this card in your play deck and sideboard combined. Return its controller to your hand if Black Horse leaves active play.
In essence, while I'm in Black Rider mode with either of these cards, can I keep on moving to non-Darkhavens while the card is on my Ringwraith (or with my Ringwraith(s) in the case of Black Horse) without stopping over at a Darkhaven, or am I required to move back to a Darkhaven immediately after the turn I moved to a non-Darkhaven?

Thanks for your help.
"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." Ford Prefect
"If you believe in Eternity, then life is irrelevant". House M.D.

Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:25 pm

Normally RWs may only move using starter movements and may only move to Darkhavens.

The various mode cards allow them to move to non-darkhaven sites, but the starter movement rule remains in force.

The only card I know of which overturns the starter movement rule is Dwar Unleashed.  Keep in mind that even Dwar still needs a mode card in order to move to a non-darkhaven site.

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Eyelid
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Post by Eyelid » Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:38 pm

Right, thanks for the quick reply.

So as long as I have the Black Rider mode card or the Black Horse ally, I can always move to a non-Darkhaven, provided I spend the following turn returning to a Darkhaven and, if I choose to do so, move again from there to another non-Darkhaven, correct?
"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." Ford Prefect
"If you believe in Eternity, then life is irrelevant". House M.D.

Pikachu
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Post by Pikachu » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:06 pm

I think that the steps are like this

1) RW is at a Darkhaven
2) Black Rider or Black Horse is played, putting the RW in Black Rider mode
3) Now the RW can move to a non-Darkhaven site, using only starter movement
4) When the RW wants to leave the non-Darkhaven site again, he can only move back to the Darkhaven he came from, because he is still restricted to starter movement
5) In the following organization phase, the RW either
a) (if he used Black Rider) discards Black Rider, leaves Black Rider mode and is stuck again at the Darkhaven until he can get a new horse
b) (if he used Black Horse) is still in Black Rider mode and free to travel to another non-Darkhaven

I hope I got this right, I do not often dare to reply to rule questions.

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Eyelid
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Post by Eyelid » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:30 pm

Right, that seems to sum it up nicely, thanks for that.

Here's a collateral question: Can Dol Guldur be used as a Darkhaven for the purposes of returning to one after your Ringwraith has moved to a non-Darkhaven?

Dol Guldur reads:
Nearest Darkhaven: Minas Morgul Special: Treat this site as a Darkhaven during the Untap Phase. Any gold ring at this site is automatically tested during the site phase (the site need not be entered). All ring tests at this site are modified by -3.
"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." Ford Prefect
"If you believe in Eternity, then life is irrelevant". House M.D.

Bandobras Took
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Post by Bandobras Took » Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:17 pm

I assume you mean Barad-Dur.  Dol Guldur IS a darkhaven.

Barad-Dur cannot be moved to without a mode card because movement is declared in the org phase and Barad Dur is only a darkhaven in the untap phase.

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Eyelid
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Post by Eyelid » Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:19 pm

Yes, Benjamin, thanks for the correction, I did mean Barad-dûr.

And thanks for your help. All is much clearer now.
"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." Ford Prefect
"If you believe in Eternity, then life is irrelevant". House M.D.

Haldalam
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Post by Haldalam » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:24 pm

So what is the advantage of using Black Rider over Black Horse.... Black Rider goes away while Black horse stays in play... Doen't it make sense to use the horse instead and free up space in your deck?

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Post by Bandobras Took » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:53 pm

Black Horse must be played during the site phase and requires you to tap the RW in question; Black Rider may be played during the organization phase, allowing you to move on the same turn it is played.

Haldalam
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Post by Haldalam » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:49 pm

ahhh, I got that part, but I would think that taking 1 turn to get the horse woudl be worht it in the long run? As you would save on deck space and only be out one turn.

I know a turn can be a looong time though....
I guess it depends on the strategy you need the RW for then.

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