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[Fallen Radagast] World Champion Deck 2005

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:58 pm
by Frodo & Bilbo
Hello I post this deck for everyone who hasn't seen the Decklist already! If you ahve any questions about this deck or some comments feel free to ask! ;-)

FW Deck vs. Heroes


Starting Characters

Threlin
Gulla
Nain
Gloin
Thrall-ring
Broin
Dagger of Westernesse
Asternak
Balin
Oin
Kili
Eomer

Starting Stage Cards

Glove of Radagast
Shifter of Hues

Characters

Radagast x3
Beretar
Faramir
Eomer, Balin, Oin, Asternak and Kili after the draft if possible


Resources

An Untimely Brood
Awaiting the Call
Barrow Blade
Blackbole
We Have Come to Kill x2
Farmer Maggot
Great Patron
Hall of Fire x2
Hide in Dark Places x2
Hinding x2
Longbottom Leaf x2
Marvels Told x2
Radagast's Black Bird
Smoke Rings x2
The Warg King
War-Warg x2
War-Wolf x2
Wild Hounds x2
Wizard's Myrmidon
Withdrawn to Mordor

Sideboard vs. Hero

A Friend or Three
Dwarven Light-Stone x2
Girdle of Radagast
Great Bats
Keys to the White Towers
Legacy of Smiths
Mitschief in a Mean Way
Noble Hound
Noble Steed
Regiment of Black Crows
Sapling of the White Tree
The White Tree
Tom Bombadil
Voices of Malice
Withdrawn to Mordor
Wizards River Horses
Wizard's Trove
Call of Home
Dror
Ivic
Lobelia Sackville-Baggins
Mordor in Arms
Muster Disperses
Pilfer Anything Unwatched
Rolled Down to the Sea
Searching Eye
The Roving Eye
Twisted Tales
Unhappy Blows

Hazard Deck vs. Heroes

Alone and Unadvised x2
An Unexpected Outpost x2
Assassin x3
Cave Drake x3
Corpse-candle
Daelomin at Home
Dragon-sickness
Itangast at Home
Lure of Expedience x2
Lure of Nature x2
Lure of Power
Lure of the Senses x2
Mouth of Sauron
My Precious
Ren the Unclean
Scorba at Home
Sellswords Between Charters x3
The Balance of Things
Uvatha the Horseman


Hazard Deck vs. Minions & FW

Adunaphel
Alatar the Hunter
An Unexpected Outpost
Cave Drake
Chill them with Fear x3
Dwarven Travellers x3
Elf-Lord Revealed in Wrath x2
Gandalf the White Wizard
Heedless Revelry x3
Lady of the Golden Wood
Master of the House
Mouth of Sauron
My Precious
Pallando the Soul-keeper
Power Built by Waiting
Returned Beyond All Hope x2
Revealed to all Watchers
Saruman the Wise
Searching Eye
Sellswords Between Charters x2
Uvatha the Horseman

Sideboard vs. Minions & FW

A Friend or Three
Diversion
Dwarven Light-Stone x2
Girdle of Radagast
Great Bats
Keys to the White Towers
Legacy of Smiths
Mitschief in a Mean Way
Noble Hound
Noble Steed
Regiment of Black Crows
Sapling of the White Tree
The White Tree
Tom Bombadil
Voices of Malice
Withdrawn to Mordor x2
Wizards River Horses
Wizard's Trove
Arthedain Rangers
Doubled Vigliance
Elf-lord Revealed in Wrath
Lost at Sea x3
Nameless Thing
Searching Eye
Siege
The Way is Shut


vs. FW (10)

Ivic
Dror
Lobelia Sackville Baggins
Elwen
Gatherer of Loyalties
Heart Grown Cold
Twisted Tales
Pilfer Anything Unwatched
Saw Further and Deeper
Wizards Voice

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:02 am
by Sly Southerner
So: Cheezagst with cheezy chilled Elf Lords wins worlds. Yay.

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:50 pm
by Bandobras Took
Are Chilled Elf-Lords cheezy?  How so?

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:11 pm
by Jambo
They're not cheezy in the traditional sense of the original cheeze meister Cheezasquattergast himself.  ;)

However, once you've been hit a few times by chilled Elf lords leaving Carn Dum or Minas Morgul (even on your first turn), you will soon grow to hate them and label them such.  Elf hazards also have extremely useful support cards (Master of the House, Returned Beyond all Hope) which only emphasis and brutalise them more than they possibly needed to be.

Granted, leaving Rivendell is also dangerous, but you can't so easily be thrashed with the equivalent of an Itangast like attack (3@17) leaving a hero haven as you can leaving a minion haven.  As a result, there's a general feeling among many that they're slightly over-powerful in their normal form - hence the myriad of Elf lord discussions and the Elf lord UEP.

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:05 pm
by Zarathustra
In view of the fact that at least three of my opponent's at Nats this year were playing Chilled ElfLords, and yet I never faced a single one despite moving around in Dragon Country all game, I think it's safe to say that Elf-Lords are not cheezy.  Like assassins, you just need to know how to prepare for them.

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:22 pm
by Jambo
your deck was specifically designed to avoid them though... Obviously not all minion decks will be the same.  

You were using a Doors of Night with Morgul Night strategy, which immediately rules out the ways for a minion to face an Elf lord (:w::w: and :s:).  Even then, once you're up in dragon country, moving from one site to the next is only a single :w:.

Like I said, trying something different like starting at Minas Morgul can be completely different.

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:36 pm
by Lord Leuber
Both Mark's nats deck of this year and the Red Hills deck are vulnerable to a turn 1 Chilled Elf-lord, IMHO. (Mark?)

After turn 1, it's a different story.

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:15 pm
by Zarathustra
Red Hills: Yes.

This Year's: only if I don't draw Down Down to Goblin Town or Lidless / Great Eye or Lidless / Eye Never Sleeping combo.

Sorry, Jamie, but I'm afraid that your argument rings hollow.  One could easily make the same kind of argument regarding assassins: "You use 2 Forewarned is Forearmed in your deck and 3 Risky Blows" or "You just don't go to :B:s or :F:s"  And the same thing is wrong with both arguments: if there are simple and effective ways around it that can be worked into top-quality decks, then it's not overpowered.... :D

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:00 pm
by Jambo
Heh :)  

Well I guess it all comes down to a subjective thing.  It may ring hollow to you but it didn't to all those voting unanimously in favour for the Elf lord UEP and possibly many others who've read and got involved with the list discussions over the years. Comparing Assassins to Elf lords, however, just doesn't cut it.  Sure, I've lost the occasional important character or Wizard to an assassin, but it usually happens when I know I'm chancing my arm, possibly trying to catch up from a losing situation by moving a relatively unprotected wizard or character to a :B: or :F:.  Heck I've even seen characters like Eomer and wounded Wizards taking the 2 MPs. Anyway here's a few examples why I think one canot compare Elf lords to assassins:

:arrow: The support cards for dealing with assassins are really good, far better than those that can help minions (particularly overt) versus the Elf lord.  One gives you an ally, the other likely 2 easy MPs or might even prevent any assassins from being played at all!

:arrow: Defeating the Elf lord is nigh on impossible, and if you do all you get is a measly 3 MPs.  I've done it once in my entire time playing.  The body check of 10 compared to no body check for an assassin.  

:arrow: With the Assassin being keyed to sites, it's far more in the player's own control as to whether they take the risk of being bothered with them or not.  Two of the minion havens are located in :s: and requires DoN to move safely.  

And yes, there are many decks which can circumvent the presence of Elf lords, but I'd argue that many really interesting possibilities in MECCG haven't been explored simply because the current Elf lord wipes them out (active RWs?).  Anyway, I think the overall feeling was that it was the ease of playing Elf lords which ruined things and not the ability to crush minion companies when played...

Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:51 pm
by Sauron
Zarathustra wrote:This Year's: only if I don't draw Down Down to Goblin Town or Lidless / Great Eye or Lidless / Eye Never Sleeping combo.
Can also go,  :d:  :b:  :d: (Southern Mirkwood, Anduin Vales, Gundabad) Assuming you have Orcs of Gundabad.

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:19 am
by Bandobras Took
More and more I'm enjoying the uses of Shadow-Cloak when wandering around Mordor or the Angmar-Gundabad area.

Besides which, if he draws Elf Lord and Chill, hopefully you'll draw a canceller and No News of Our Riding.

I guess Elf-Lord doesn't seem that cheesy to me (a wee bit powerful for a non-unique) because there is more than one way around it (unlike, say River).  Cancelers, Voices on the Long Event, or even various Magic Cards can all help (a Magic Recycling deck that plays two or three Bitter Colds/turn . . . hmmm . . . I may have just had another ridiculous deck idea. :))

amen

Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:29 pm
by stone troll
Amen to to all Zara had to say.

Additionally, big tournaments are where cheeze gets ripest, e.g. Cheezagast, underleas squat, roadblock, 12 creatures + 18 corruption card haz strats, etc.  You just WILL NOT typically see little used "cool & thematic" card combos in a big event.

In a tournament setting, the minion player plays doors to stifle elf lords, plain and simple, just as a lot of hero decks will play 3xgates to counter the ugly roadblock.  Additionally, many minion tournament decks play with banex2 to stop recycling.

There are multiple ways to stifle elf lords such as doors, low haz limits + cancellers ( orc scouts + sneaking, orc stealth, nice place to hide, diversion, magic cards on rw or ruse on scout rw), available sages to nix the chill with fear.

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:22 pm
by Frodo & Bilbo
Really I don't think that the Elf-Lords are overpowerd, because you can't excpect to have a Chill, Elf-Lord combo ready in round 1! And mostly all minion deck try to avoid the Elf-Lords! That's  also the reason why I removed one. And what will you do if you opponent playes Mordor or Underdeeps squatter?! Nothing!!! So the use is really limited and you don't play the Elf-Lords very often...the Maias and the Chilled Dwarven Travellers are much better in my opinion!!! I only play the Elf-Lords to protect me from CvCC! If someone is going to attack me I move to another ruin and be sure that I move through two wilderness! ;-)

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:22 am
by Sly Southerner
In any case congratulations and thanks for posting the deck!  :)

Really !

Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:10 am
by Logain
My best hazard against minions always was 3 x Elf Lords + Chill AND Maias + Dwarves. And I can't remember minions decks facing my hasard (including worlds, french and european championships) without heavy loses. My weak point always has been heroes and Cheezegast...

I think that when decks can not be played in high level tournaments because of just one card then it means that that card is very strong.

It IS the case with Elf Lord.

My 2 cents.
Ernst.