[hero] Dwarves are expendaple!

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_nauku_
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[hero] Dwarves are expendaple!

Post by _nauku_ » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:29 pm

Someone requested for nations cup decks in the events forum. Here's mine. As you can see it's not very tuned. Especially sideboards and hazards are full of bobbins (and by bobbins I mean total crap). The deck is quite slow, but has the potential of scoring some very nice points.

Results with this deck in nations cup:
0-6 lose against minion
0-6 lose against hero
3-3 tie against minion
6-0 win aginst hero dunk
4-2 win against hero

Versus hero:

[pool]
Balin
Bifur
Bofur
Bombur
Dain II
Gimli
Gloin
Oin
Thorin II
Thrain II
Healing Herbs
Healing Herbs

The ideal starting company would be:  Thrain, Oin, Balin, Bifur and bombur.  Herbs to Thrain and bifur.

[characters in deck]
Alatar
Dori
Fili
Ori
Pallando
Pallando

If you get the ideal starting company put Gloin and bofur to deck.

[resources]

A Chance Meeting
A Chance Meeting
A Chance Meeting
A Friend or Three
A Friend or Three
Dark Quarrels
Dark Quarrels
Durin's Axe
Great Ship
Great Ship
Great Ship
Sapling of the White Tree
Southrons
Belegaer
Belegaer
Belegaer
Marvels Told
Wizard Uncloaked
Wormsbane
An Unexpected Party
An Unexpected Party
Forewarned Is Forearmed
Smoke Rings
Smoke Rings
Noble Hound
Noble Hound
Noble Hound
Noble Steed
Noble Steed
Longbottom Leaf

[hazards]

Adunaphel
Ambusher
Ambusher
Cave-drake
Cave-drake
Corsairs of Umbar
Indur Dawndeath
Mouth of Sauron
River
River
River
Twilight
Twilight
Uvatha the Horseman
Bairanax Ahunt
Daelomin At Home
Foolish Words
Foolish Words
Itangast Ahunt
Lobelia Sackville-Baggins
Revealed to all Watchers
Wandering Eldar
Wandering Eldar
Lure of Expedience*
Lure of Nature*
Power Built by Waiting
Power Built by Waiting
Rolled down to the Sea
Dror
Dasakun

[sideboard]

Lost at Sea
Lost at Sea
Lost in Free-domains
Lost in Free-domains
Aragorn II
Cirdan
Knights of Dol Amroth
Men of Anorien
Return of the King
Scroll of Isildur
The White Tree
Smaug Ahunt
Marvels Told
Marvels Told
Good Sense Revolts
Seized by Terror
Seized by Terror
Durin's Bane
Forewarned Is Forearmed
Smoke Rings
Call of Home*
The Roving Eye
Pilfer Anything Unwatched
Turning Hope to Despair
Unhappy Blows
Safe from the Shadow
Bow of the Galadhrim
Noble Steed
Promptings of Wisdom
Diminish and Depart


Versus minion and FW:


[starting]
Balin
Bifur
Bofur
Bombur
Dori
Fili
Gimli
Gloin
Oin
Thrain II
Healing Herbs
Healing Herbs

Try to get the same starting chars as you did against hero-opponent. Put all remaining littledwarves to deck.

[characters]
Alatar
Alatar
Alatar
Ori

[resources]

A Chance Meeting
A Chance Meeting
A Chance Meeting
A Friend or Three
A Friend or Three
Dark Quarrels
Dark Quarrels
Durin's Axe
Great Ship
Great Ship
Great Ship
Orcrist
Sapling of the White Tree
Southrons
Belegaer
Belegaer
Belegaer
Marvels Told
Wizard Uncloaked
An Unexpected Party
An Unexpected Party
Forewarned Is Forearmed
Smoke Rings
Smoke Rings
Noble Hound
Noble Hound
Noble Hound
Noble Steed
Noble Steed
Longbottom Leaf

[hazards]

Adunaphel
Cave-drake
Mouth of Sauron
Ren the Unclean
Uvatha the Horseman
Witch-king of Angmar
Daelomin At Home
Ice-drake
Ice-drake
Itangast Ahunt
Rain-drake
Rain-drake
An Unexpected Outpost
Revealed to all Watchers
Spider of the Morlat
Sellswords Between Charters
Heedless Revelry
Heedless Revelry
Tidings of Bold Spies
Tidings of Bold Spies
Twilight*
Twilight*
Twilight*
Gandalf the White Rider
Lady of the Golden Wood
Power Built by Waiting
Whole Villages Roused
Whole Villages Roused
Baduila
Golodhros

[sideboard]

Call of Home
Drowning Seas
Lost at Sea
Aragorn II
Thorin II
A Friend or Three
Glamdring
Return of the King
The White Tree
Tower Guard of Minas Tirith
Smaug Ahunt
Marvels Told
Marvels Told
Redoubled Force
Redoubled Force
Durin's Bane
Smoke Rings
Arthadan Rangers
Foolish Words*
Foolish Words*
Heedless Revelry
Lost in Free-domains*
Lost in Free-domains*
Muster Disperses*
River*
The Roving Eye
Shut Yer Mouth
Alone and Unadvised
Unhappy Blows
Noble Steed

[anti-FW]

Corsairs of Umbar
Nameless Thing
Blind to the West
Blind to the West
Blind to the West
Echoes of the Song
Echoes of the Song
Echoes of the Song
Nature's Revenge
Nature's Revenge


What to do:
As you can see the resource portion of deck is almost the same against hero and minion, nothing special there. 1st turn depending what you have in hand, run to ruined signal tower, the stones or to wose passage-hold. grey havens are also an option. Anyway you want to run to such region that you can play belegaer next turn.

Don't about your dwarves too much, they can get wounded and die as long as new characters take their place, just make sure that unexpected party stays in table. You can also toss belegaers and ships away once you get to harad, because there you can exploit the 3 sites of that region and the last move from there hould be to minas tirith.
Not too many cycling cards either so at some point you need to use wiz to cycle some key cards to deck. Mostly for the minas tirith combo.

Southrons are critical because they are the only faction straight in deck. Friend or three should do it though. Don't count too much on getting men of anorien or tower guard of M.T because after the play of sapling Lost in free domains is what is waiting on the way there.

Unless you split wiz to his own company, the ideal time for playing aragorn is in the is the site/end phase of last turn to avoid call of homes (you have to disc unexpected party).

What else... well ask if I was unclear or forgot something.

-Tomppa
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Manuel
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Post by Manuel » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:43 pm

Just a few comments:

Steeds are way better than Hounds, and you can play it everywhere (gobel mirlond, oasis, hawd in gwanur...)

Even when you have reached Harondor, Great Ships and Belegaer are fine. You can move from Harondor to Harondor, having 2 less HL and most important, having the possibility of cancelling a hazard with each of your untapped characters.

Some cool additions to the deck would be Hundred of Butterflies (esp since you don't care much about HL) and, given the fact that you play healing herbs x2, escape would do fine as well.

I'm not sure if you meant An U.Party will go when you play Aragorn, but you're allowed to have two non-dwarf characters there.

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_nauku_
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Post by _nauku_ » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:56 pm

Manuel wrote: Even when you have reached Harondor, Great Ships and Belegaer are fine. You can move from Harondor to Harondor, having 2 less HL and most important, having the possibility of cancelling a hazard with each of your untapped characters.
True, but at some point your opponent has cycled in some lost at sea or storms of osse. So at some it you want to get rid of ships anyway.

My mistake that Aragorn thing. It seems that i played it wrong through the tournament. heh.

Noble steeds are good, yes, but dogs can be played from turn 1. That is why one steed was put to side instead of dog. Though the last steed cycles in to deck at some point.

Thanks for the comments, they give the deck some extra boost indeed :)
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Post by Manuel » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:04 pm

Great Ship can cancel both Lost to the Sea and Drowning Seas effect :) (not sure about winds of wrath, but who plays that anyway...)

Storms of Osse will tap every site in Harondor anyway, since all of them have a  :c: in the sitepath.

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Post by _nauku_ » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:32 pm

It can but it can't :(

I try to explain this, but I'm not too familiar with the timing rules myself so I hope it is understandable. Miguel pointed me this loophole when I playtested that deck.

1) You play great ship in your org. phase, but it's effect is dependable of your sitepath so it's still ineffectual.

2) You (the resourceplayer) declares at start of m/h phase the order in which these effects get declared.

3) The hazardplayer can respond to this with lost at sea

4) Lost at sea resolves

5) Great ships effect kicks in and allows you to start canceling stuff

6) Too late, mate

Sad but true. :(
Last edited by _nauku_ on Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zarathustra
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Post by Zarathustra » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:39 pm

I believe there is a mind-restriction associated with An Unexpected Party.  Aragorn is too smart to join the party without everyone getting bored with his erudite wit.... :(

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Post by _nauku_ » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:42 pm

Zarathustra wrote:I believe there is a mind-restriction associated with An Unexpected Party.  Aragorn is too smart to join the party without everyone getting bored with his erudite wit.... :(
So I played it right after all.  :wink:
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Post by Manuel » Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:58 pm

An Unexpected Party
resource
Permanent-event
Only playable during the organization phase on a company. There is no limit to the size of this company. Dwarves with a mind of 2 or less in this company do not require influence to be controlled; and there is no limit to how many Dwarves may be brought into play on a given turn with the company. Discard this card if the company has more than one non-Wizard character with a mind greater than 5 or more than two non-Dwarf characters or no Dwarf with a mind greater than 5. Cannot be duplicated on a given company.
Yeah looks like that is the line that screws the whole thing. I didn't see AUP being discarded in your game vs Agus though ;)

As for the Great Ship thing, it is beyond my capabilities to know what happens in the tortured mind of Miguel. Lost at Sea targets the company, and Great Ship can cancel a hazard that targets the company or an entity asociated with it. I'm not sure I understand the explanation you have given away, so until someone convinces me, I'll defend that Great Ship does cancel Lost at Sea effect =P

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Post by miguel » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:08 pm

Manuel wrote:As for the Great Ship thing, it is beyond my capabilities to know what happens in the tortured mind of Miguel. Lost at Sea targets the company, and Great Ship can cancel a hazard that targets the company or an entity asociated with it.
CRF: Turn Sequence Rulings: Organization Phase: Choosing a New Site:
Effects that are played during the organization phase, and depend on the site or site path of a moving company, create an effect which is not declared until the new site is revealed. If the site or site path is not of the appropriate type when the effect resolves, the resource has no effect. If the company has multiple movement/hazard phases on the same turn, the card applies separately to each phase, having an effect only if the correct conditions are met.
CoE Digest #112:
The beginning of a company's movement-hazard phase unfolds thus:
(A) Revealing the site: Simultaneously determine the company's site path and the base hazard limit. This happens immediately, and cannot be responded to.
* Opponent halving the hazard limit in order to sideboard affects the base hazard limit.
* There are special rules concerning Under-deeps movement. (CRF: Rulings by Term: Under-deeps)

(B) Resolution of the site: Simultaneously draw cards, resolve other effects of the site card, and apply any other relevant effects in play. This happens immediately, and cannot be responded to.
* Annotation 26 applies here, except for hazard limit modifying effects which were in play prior to the start of the movement/hazard phase.

(C) First chain of effects: Effects that were played during the organization phase and depend on the site or site path of a moving company, create an effect which is now declared along with actions from passive conditions.
* After all of these effects/actions have been declared, players are free to add to this chain of effects by playing cards and/or declaring more actions.
Great Ship's effect will not help you until it has resolved. Its effect will be declared in the first chain of effects in the company's move/haz phase. Players can add to that chain, so Lost at Sea could resolve before the protective boat kicks in.

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Post by Bandobras Took » Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:25 am

My word, my win rate could triple to a staggering 60% if I could ever wrap my mind around timing rules. :)

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Post by _nauku_ » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:37 am

Manuel wrote:
An Unexpected Party
resource
Permanent-event
Only playable during the organization phase on a company. There is no limit to the size of this company. Dwarves with a mind of 2 or less in this company do not require influence to be controlled; and there is no limit to how many Dwarves may be brought into play on a given turn with the company. Discard this card if the company has more than one non-Wizard character with a mind greater than 5 or more than two non-Dwarf characters or no Dwarf with a mind greater than 5. Cannot be duplicated on a given company.
Yeah looks like that is the line that screws the whole thing. I didn't see AUP being discarded in your game vs Agus though ;)
Doesn't screw it. Just need to split or play aragorn during the last turn.

And yes I did discard it against Agus. Then when I split the companies while trying to leave minas tirith I played it again and was forced discard it right away when the dwarevs were forced back :D

But I never actually got so many dwarves out in that game that having  the party in game would have mattered anyway, kinda surfed with the starting company the whole game.
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