On digests overruling eachother and the publising of rules

Anything MeCCG that does not have a forum... yet

Moderator: Moderators

Beornd
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:05 pm
Location: Wildon/Austria

Post by Beornd » Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:13 am

You may of course us Under His Blow and similar cards in order not to receive -3 prowess for not tapping against a strike.  However, if the sum of the die-roll and the character's prowess is less than the prowess of the creature, the character will still tap.
now i´m very confused :?

This has an official ruling in Digest #107.

http://www.meccg.net/dforum/viewtopic.php?p=12927

whats happen with this game every time there are new CRFs and then CRFs for CRFs ...... i mean the game is not such complicated done as  WE do so.
bb

User avatar
Sauron
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:04 pm

Post by Sauron » Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:56 pm

Beornd wrote:whats happen with this game every time there are new CRFs and then CRFs for CRFs ...... i mean the game is not such complicated done as  WE do so.
There is only 1 CRF.

None of the rules digests are in of themselves CRFs.  They are clarifications for confusing points, and sometimes new information is brought to the light to make previous clarifications incorrect.  People make mistakes.

There is still only 1 CRF

Beornd
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:05 pm
Location: Wildon/Austria

Post by Beornd » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:34 pm

There is only 1 CRF.
Thx.

CRF 107
My minion character faces a detaintment attack. When I play Under His Blow, what happens:

A: The character receives no -3, but must roll and tap if he loses.

B: Under His Blow prevents the tapping against a strioke, so the detainment tap doesnt work either.

***  B is correct.  The character will normally tap after the strike sequence is complete, either due to the normal rules of facing an attack or due to failing a strike from a detainment attack.  Under His Blow prevents a character from tapping for one strike, so if the strike would cause the character to tap, Under His Blow prevents it.
CRF 113
(2) The question has arisen whether it is possible to use Under His Blow and similar cards to avoid being tapped by a detainment attack.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You may of course us Under His Blow and similar cards in order not to receive -3 prowess for not tapping against a strike.  However, if the sum of the die-roll and the character's prowess is less than the prowess of the creature, the character will still tap.

The same problem but not the same decision - thats what i only meant. :(
bb

Zarathustra
Posts: 1968
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2003 9:07 pm
Location: NY

Post by Zarathustra » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:16 pm

Right, this ruling overrules the previous digest.

User avatar
Jaded
Posts: 483
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:42 am
Location: Poland

Post by Jaded » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:18 pm

IMO this decision is much better. There is still hope... :P

Beornd
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:05 pm
Location: Wildon/Austria

Post by Beornd » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:22 pm

Right, this ruling overrules the previous digest.
Thx Zara ... i´m with you
:D

but only a little notice in the new CRF would be prevent many of our postings   :wink:
bb

User avatar
Sauron
Posts: 485
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:04 pm

Post by Sauron » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:03 pm

CRF is not the same as CoE Digest.

The CoE Digest is made up from the CRF, and rule inserts.

The CoE Digests are subject to change, the CRF & Rule Inserts are not subject to change (Under normal circumstances).

I think you're getting your terimnology wrong.

But regardless, the most current CoE Ruling overrules any previous CoE Ruling.

Manuel
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain
Contact:

Post by Manuel » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:45 pm

While I'm on favour of not giving Under his Blow such infinite power, it's no good for this game that we are changing the rules each 2 months, especially when all these digests aren't updated in the CRF.

It's hard to keep everyone updated. I am the only official judge in my country, and we have over 350 players signed up in the spanish MECCG forum. Not only the Digest 107, but also the Play and examples File, state that Under his Blow will prevent a character from tapping against one strike. People gets tired of seeing the rules are changing each 2 weeks; perhaps it's not a problem for us, since we check these forums very often, meet each other in GCCG, but for every other player in the world (which is roughly 95%) all these changes may look arbitrary, and lets face it, not all of them know who is the NetRep, and they don't understand why he was choosen; a few of them don't even agree with following the directions of someone who's not an ICE employee. Sometimes they don't even share my position as "official" judge, since the word "official" means very few in a game that lost his owner several years ago.

As a side note, I have been recommending everyone to download and print the Play and Examples file since the very first time I saw it. Now it seems I should no longer do that.

Not everyone has the time to read 113 Digests, the rules, the CRF, etc with all their contradictions and further corrections. I know this game needs all this work, and be sure we appreciate all the effort put into it a lot, BUT, we need to have all these stuff condensed in only one document

Otherwise, it is impossible for the other 95% of the players to keep track of everything.

My 2 €
Last edited by Manuel on Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
fanfarian
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:59 pm
Location: Niedereschach, Germany
Contact:

Post by fanfarian » Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:03 pm

I am 100% with Manuel, there is too much to keep track of all the changes.

cheers
stefan
Suche Spieler im Raum VS, Germany
Webmaster www.councilofelrond.org

Bandobras Took
Moderator
Posts: 1275
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:03 pm

Post by Bandobras Took » Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:25 am

On the positive side, we're getting regular rulings again.  Perhaps an addendum of "this ruling is still under a little debate; watch for further updates" would work?

User avatar
fanfarian
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:59 pm
Location: Niedereschach, Germany
Contact:

Post by fanfarian » Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:23 am

It's not against the ruling, the game needs those clarifications, but
Manuel wrote:Not everyone has the time to read 113 Digests, the rules, the CRF, etc with all their contradictions and further corrections. I know this game needs all this work, and be sure we appreciate all the effort put into it a lot, BUT, we need to have all these stuff condensed in only one document
I hope we can do this with the new CoE Website.
Suche Spieler im Raum VS, Germany
Webmaster www.councilofelrond.org

Manuel
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain
Contact:

Post by Manuel » Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:38 pm

Bandobras Took wrote:On the positive side, we're getting regular rulings again.  Perhaps an addendum of "this ruling is still under a little debate; watch for further updates" would work?
That's very positive, in fact.

However, I don't think we need to debate the decissions the NetRep makes. We should simply adapt - in little time he's be on, I have never seen a single ruling by the new netRep that majority of people don't like. Mark is a player too, and as long as he's connected with all of us and knows the feeling of the gaming community, most of the rulings he'll make will prolly be ok, if not all.

User avatar
Jaded
Posts: 483
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:42 am
Location: Poland

Post by Jaded » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:27 pm

Mmm...first class flattery attempt ;)
I do not agree with you, and think it's good that mistakes are "patched".

User avatar
|Highwayman|
Posts: 337
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:16 am
Location: Poland

Post by |Highwayman| » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:51 pm

I'm with Jaded - the new ruling is better, and old rulings should be checked once in a while and patched if needed

and also in casual games everyone plays however they want so NetRep and CoE rullings doesn't really matter that much in casual games - as long as everyone is informed about newest, current rulling before big official events everything will be fine

Manuel
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain
Contact:

Post by Manuel » Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:09 am

I'm on favour of having rules renewed... it's just that we need to have them more handy than they are nowadays.
as long as everyone is informed about newest, current rulling before big official events everything will be fine
Yes but then again it's almost impossible to have everyone attending to such events informed when rulings are changing from time to time and they are so disperse.

Post Reply