[UEP, accepted] Multiple Rivers only require one ranger

Bandobras Took · Post by **Bandobras Took** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:51 pm

Another note that I didn't have time for before.  Rolled is unique.  Only having one in the deck is sufficiently limiting even with recycling that it's not overpowered.

Post by **Vastor Peredhil** » Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:47 pm

Yes, for me.... hopefully most people will eventually realize that rivers were not meant to hinder more than corruption or creatures or both combined.

mfg Nicolai

Sly Southerner · Post by **Sly Southerner** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:44 am

stone troll wrote:Maybe players need to better explore ways to untap their rangers to deal with river (hundreds of butterflies, narya, cram, and forth he hastened, haz limit reduction, show things unbidden, bane of ithilstone to prevent recycling).

These cards (and their minion counterparts) are limited in their usefullness against multiple Rivers. Additionally, you have to play these resources during M/H phase because you cant do ANYTHING during the site phase before dealing with all the Rivers.

Hundreds of butterflies: Will increase HL for the next River
Narya: Gandalf only, and he isnt a Ranger
And Forth He Hastened: Wizards company only
Cram: Will work once
Haz limit reduction: HL of 2 is enough for 2 Rivers
Show Things Unbidden: Requires Galadriel and at best delays things until next turn. With all that GI for Galadriel there isnt much left for extra Rangers.
Bane of the Ithilstone: Will at least help prevent recycling

We aren't saying its impossible to deal with multiple Rivers, but you need to dedicate a lot of cards to it. Its easier and more efficient just to include a company full of rangers, which is not very interesting.

1.  Beorning Skin Changers-forces use of high prowess warriors (and ways to keep them untapped) or Promptings straight up in the deck.

Beorning skin changers is even worse than River so IMHO not a good example of why the current CRF ruling on River is a good thing!

[UEP, Europe, proposed]

Dont forget the Southerners!

Bandobras Took · Post by **Bandobras Took** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:12 am

Unabated and Skin-Changers enter onto my list of cards from the Balrog set that are Broken.

At any rate, I don't think Skin-Changers is worse than River.  One Promptings/Piercing or Govern the Storms will satisfy that.  Of course, the first two cards require tapping a Ranger, which River makes unfeasible . . .

Dam · Post by **Dam** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:09 am

I was all for a change in River when this thing first popped on the scene, so a YES from me.

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:37 pm

Judgement day has arrived for this one to be either accepted or bounced by the end of tonight. Incidently, just in time for the accepted list to be updated and finalised using Peter's script (with Peter's help hopefully).

Wacho · Post by **Wacho** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:14 am

I'll vote yes

henrikbe · Post by **henrikbe** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:44 am

Yes from me

Sly Southerner · Post by **Sly Southerner** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:35 am

Accepted! Yay! Just in time for the end of August deadline.  :D

Note there were two last minute votes to make it 73%, but the vote was 66% without these votes which is also enough to be accepted.

Nice to see it become fairly convincing though.  :D

Thorsten the Traveller · Post by **Thorsten the Traveller** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:02 pm

The current formulation of this UEP is rather weird imho. Why did we not simply make this card not duplicable on a given site? Are the consequences for game play that big (just dissing cards, possible fizzles?)

Thorsten the Traveller · Post by **Thorsten the Traveller** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:20 pm

Another problem with this formulation is that if you immediately tap a ranger for River any subsequent Rivers still require you to tap a ranger.

edit: hmm, I see this was actually Adrian's intention in the proposal. Well then we cannot change it, though it remains flawed imo, but, there's that.