[UEP, failed] Durin's Folk and Sons of Kings

[Leon]

Sons of Kings C 2* 10/- f b B F
Dœnedain. Three strikes (playable only against minion companies).

Durin's Folk C3 2* 8/- Creature
Playable: Wilderness Border-land
Dwarves. Five strikes. Detainment and -2 prowess against hero companies. May also be played keyed to The Shire.

Name: Durin's Folk and Sons of Kings

Status: failed

Proposal maintainer: Leon Huisman

Categories: consistency

Errata: change the marshalling points value for these cards to 1* instead of 2*

Problem: these creatures are never played because they give too much points if defeated

Solution: change the marshalling points value for these cards to 1* instead of 2*

Pros: enhance playability for these cards and get the amount of points more consistent with other creatures

Cons: the world gets slightly more dangerous for Sauron's minions

Rationale: in Middle Earth CCG creatures generally give 1 marshalling point if killed. If a creature has body it is harder to kill and generally gives more points if killed. The other noteworthy exception are Assassin and Slayer, which have multiple attacks and choose defending characters and are hard enough to defeat to award 2 marshalling points for that. Durin's Folk and Sons of Kings fit in neither these categories.

Changing the marshalling points to 1* will probably be enough to allow these creatures some play and to make free peoples effective as hazards versus minions. Up till now, Elf-lords, maia and perhaps Ents are the only * creatures played on minions and perhaps this small change will have some effect.

Discussion:

Voting started at: 03-05-2007

Voting ends at: 18-05-2007

[Bandobras Took]

This seems fairly reasonable.  I've never understood why they merited such a high MP count; can somebody give a reason?

[Leon]

Please if there is opposition put down arguments, because there can always be reasons I overlooked.

[Ringbearer]

I fond it that they arent played mostly cause there are better choices to cover the regions/site types they attack on. Borderland has Landroval, and Dwarven Travellers/Maia combo to deal of that, and Free-Domain has maia to cover.

[Leon]

You are right that even with this change there are probably better creatures. Most of those are rare though, which is an impediment to some players outside gccg (I do not even own all maias myself) Also I really like hazards decks based on one creature type and Durin's Folk would be a good addition to the Dwarven Travelers and maia for example. I can already see my favourite hero dwarves deck attacking some orc group with both resources and hazards as dwarves.  :twisted:

The Sons of Kings would also become a good creature during sealed games, where as I would not consider putting it in my deck as it is if I have any other good choice of creatures.

[Sly Southerner]

No for me because I dont think it would help much and its not really a 'mistake'. This whole category of cards might be better with a dream card event that made them easier to play.

Edited to add the word 'not' which I missed the first time!  :oops:

[Leon]

Please if you oppose this UEP present me with some arguments. The playability of these cards is no problem, but at the moment you have just the risk of handing your opponent too much points. I would be in line with the Elves upon Errantry to have these cards at 1* as well:

Elves upon Errantry C 1* 9/- w w b f
Elves. Four strikes (playable only against minion companies).

The dwarves 5 strikes at 8, elves 4 strikes at 9 and dunedain 3 strikes at 10. Combine this with some usual stuff and some events and you have a playable, thematic hazard strategy. Not brilliant, but even without Chill Them With Fear they would be playable.

I also play hazard strategies like wolves some times and that is probably less effective, but making diverse and thematic decks is a large part of the fun of this game for me.

If you consider it a mistake, why oppose making a small correction like this? Also I will probably sooner play with UEPs than with dreamcards.

I think this is a sensible errata and probably more effective to enhance play than for example the Mumak playability. Another solution would be to give the cards body, but I find it more consistent with the creatures out there to just reduce the marshalling points.

[Sly Southerner]

Sorry Leon I screwed up my original post - now edited.

[Thorsten the Traveller]

No for reason of not being an obvious mistake, and therefore belonging more in the category of trying to improve cardplay.
Nevertheless, 2 mp's for these is a mistake in my book, and I totally agree with your analysis Leon, I've left them out of my deck on number of occasions because of risks of giving away easy kill points, and always found it a pity. Saying that there are better alternatives around does also include this negative point in the equasion.

As a solution, I would rather they have a body value then decreased MP's, obviously. Sons of Kings, you'd expect a bit more than a sneaky ambusher....if the Sons of Sauron (Olog-Hai) can have body stat, then why not the Sons of Kings?  

[Leon]

I agree that this attempted errata was a try to improve card play. I thought that these creatures should be playable at least in some thematic decks or sealed decks. If people would agree to give the creatures 5 body instead of reducing the marshalling points that would be fine by me as well, but there does not seem to be enough animo or interest.

Too bad...

[Leon]

Anyone interested in giving these guys some body as an UEP or should I introduce it as virtual cards?