[UEP, Failed] Blind/Ire cannot be used on Ring Tests

[Sly Southerner]

I've posted a workable New Ringlord deck in the decks section.  It's dunked twice in five games.

So what's the problem then?

Can you post a link?

[Sly Southerner]

In the case of New Ringlord, while one can recycle the Ring Tests, it's the delay that is the key factor.  If I used Fallen Saruman's ability to pull Wizard's Test from the discard in order to test a Ring in the first place, I've just lost a turn.

Have you found the deay is with playing the One Ring or in meeting the requirements of ANR afterwards?

[Bandobras Took]

Meeting the requirements of ANR is actually pretty easy.

http://www.meccg.net/dforum/viewtopic.php?t=2307

I emphasize that it's only worked because it hasn't been delayed by a turn -- which Blind/Ire inevitably accomplish.

[Jambo]

Can minion resources be used to test hero rings?  If so, then that'll scupper someone who's sideboarded over Blind to the West(s).

One could always try to get the minion version of the One ring?

Also, don't you get one roll to win per A New Ringlord in play?

[Bandobras Took]

No, Minion Resources cannot be used to test Hero Rings, and vice versa.  The only exception to this rule is Wizard's Test, which is a spell.

Also, all tests by a FW on Hero Gold Rings suffer an automatic -1 penalty.

Yes, you do get one roll per New Ringlord in play.  However, you aren't going to get one in play until you have the One.

And if you're simply looking for item MPs, you really can't go with Rings.  Your opponent will have called by the time you manage to play a real ring item (keeping in mind the abundance of anti-ring hazards anyway).

[Bandobras Took]

Tried a Dwarven Ring FW deck last night.  I got hit by Rolled just after I'd been forced to discard my last Mind Ring from my hand.

I didn't even get around to having my Ringlores Blinded/Ired.

Does it really need to be that difficult for FWs to test rings?

[Ringbearer]

Well, for minion as well Rolled is a problem. The only side viable IMHO to play rings is hero, becase they have brooches to protect from rolled down. If I ever face a ring deck, be sure to face rolled down at least three times. Once, second trough mouth and uvatha gets the mouth for rolled number 3. And if posisble, Outpost sents him back into the drawdeck afterwards for a fourth time.

I think for any FW Ringdeck Rolled Down much more pain is than Ire/Blind.

[Bandobras Took]

And that's the point of this UEP -- Blind/Ire on the tests is one obstacle too many.  Rolled Down to the Sea, which was included in the set, is a sufficient pain.  Something Else At Work is also a sufficient pain.  Blind and Ire are too much, and unduly punish the FW player who wants to try a Ring For Points deck.

[Ringbearer]

Well, in my opinion Blind and Ire compensate for the doubled pool of cards to make a deck from. Wether it be rings or another deck, playing a FW has its bonuses, and thus also should be compensated.

[Bandobras Took]

The doubled pool does absolutely nothing for FW Rings-for-points decks because ring tests do not work cross-alignment (with the exception of Wizard's Tests).  While in general I agree and do not complain about Blind/Ire generally, Rings and Ring tests are already limited enough.

In what way does a FW Rings-for-Points deck enjoy an advantage over a Hero or Minion Rings-for-Points deck?

[Ringbearer]

You have many more rings to choose from, spirit rings, many magic rings, dwarven rings... 4 times a chance for ringlore compared to 3 times hero/minion. Sarumans ring can get back a ring each turn to compensate for Rolled Down.

Besides, Wizards Test is obvious the way to go with Rings, as the double roll makes it much easier to get what you want.

Minion rings is basically sucked out on the lack of ringtests. THey only have 3 test of fire, and the -2 storing tests.

Hero is best equipped with Wizards Test, A sage test and a random -1 test.

So the best of both worlds come together, together with Sarumans Ring. Not too shabby I'd say.

Also, compared to hero you have extra resources in the form of Dark Tryst, 4 condition removals.

Compared to minion there is always Longbottom leaf...

Enough advantages for a FW I must say.

[Bandobras Took]

You have many more rings to choose from, spirit rings, many magic rings, dwarven rings... 4 times a chance for ringlore compared to 3 times hero/minion. Sarumans ring can get back a ring each turn to compensate for Rolled Down.

Spirit Rings: 3 MPs, 2 CPs
Hero Magic Rings: 3 MPs, 2 CPs

Which one is going to get chosen?  It's a false variety.  One may as well claim that Minions have an advantage because of the immense variety of RWs to choose from.

Besides, Wizards Test is obvious the way to go with Rings, as the double roll makes it much easier to get what you want.

And therefore 3 x Blind neatly trumps it.  Unless you clutter the deck with even more tests, which will slow you down enough to lose anyway.

Minion rings is basically sucked out on the lack of ringtests. THey only have 3 test of fire, and the -2 storing tests.

And Rumor of the One to make automatically tested Lesser Rings worth 3 MPs.

So the best of both worlds come together, together with Sarumans Ring. Not too shabby I'd say.

Speaking strictly of Rings-for-points decks, the best of both worlds only comes together if they have the same chance of testing a ring before the game ends.  In that respect, Minions are the winners -- all you need is RW to get your Lesser/Magic Rings on the table.  Hero decks come next -- as you mentioned, Wizard's Test is great, and theirs is uncancellable.  FWs come dead last, no matter how you look at it.

The greater variety of rings is pointless since they all rely on ring tests to get them into play.  No matter what kind of ring you're trying for, it's going to break down at the test.

Saruman's Ring is undeniably good.  Unfortunately, we run into the same roadblock -- being able to overcome Rolled is pointless when you can't actually test the ring before the game's over.

Also, compared to hero you have extra resources in the form of Dark Tryst, 4 condition removals.

And Hero players can use characters with a mind greater than 5, but I don't think this relates to Rings-for-Points decks.  All FW decks have a similar resource advantage, but Blind to the West can't directly keep Radagast from getting ally points or Pallando from getting faction points.

Compared to minion there is always Longbottom leaf...

Given that Whispers/Rumors are available, Longbottom Leaf isn't precisely relevant.

Enough advantages for a FW I must say.

Except most of them have nothing to do with a Rings-for-Points deck.  Compared to other types of FW MP decks, Rings-for-Points is unworkable.  Compared to Hero and Minion Rings-for-Points, it has the weakness of having its tests cancelled, which applies to neither hero nor minion.

[Ringbearer]

I think they do apply. By using tryst as an example,it builds up speed. It takes time to add 3 Blind to the West, and against a ringdeck I focus more on rolled than blind to be in tbh.

[Bandobras Took]

On the other hand, that same time is still taken up by getting ring+test -- especially because of the aforementioned Rolled.

[Ringbearer]

Rolled works fine enough for ringdecks. I wouldnt even bother adding Blinds to start with... Rolled Down and the General cards like cruel claw percieved and Inner Rot do more damage. Saruman isnt the king of GI with his 15, and cruel claw bites more than Blind ever would do.