[UEP, Failed]Rolled: Gold Ring Item Only

[Bandobras Took]

Name: Rolled: Gold Ring Item Only

Status: Failed

Proposal maintainer: Bandobras Took

Categories: Balance, Theme

Errata: Unique. Opponent must discard a gold ring item from his hand or from one of his companies if available. If no gold ring items are available as such, he must reveal his hand to you.

Problem:  While Rolled is a necessary card in helping defend against Hero Dunk decks, it has the unfortunate side effect of making already cloggy Rings-For-Points decks almost unviable.  A dedicated Ring deck must already work wonders in card management and roll well to get its item MPs, and nothing is more frustrating that knowing precisely what a Ring is and still having to get rid of it.  Thematically, this makes no sense, and balance and fun-wise, it's a little too strong.

Solution:  Have Rolled apply to Gold Ring Items.  This lets it retain its full strength against Dunk decks, since most of those don't test for the ring until they're about to win anyway.  It also can slow down Rings-for-Points decks, but only before such Gold Ring Items are tested.

Pros:  Rings-for-points will be more viable, and Rolled's anti-dunk use is not affected in any way.

Cons:  Maybe people like a Lord of the Rings game to not focus on Rings of Power?

Rationale:  People have a hard enough time with Ring decks as it is; do you know how many times I've seen a deck fall apart on bad Ring rolls?

Discussion:  Not much specifically.

Voting started at:  05/02/2008

Voting ends at: 06/01/2008

[Sly Southerner]

I think this is a good idea but what about The One Ring?

[Bandobras Took]

I can just see that happening --

Gandalf:  The letters of fire confirm it -- this is the One Ring beyond any doubt.

Frodo:  We'd better take it to Mordor and destroy it, then.

Saruman:  Actually, the One was lost ages ago.

Frodo:  Right-o, then (tosses Ring down the garbage disposal).

It won't hit the One Ring itself -- it will hit dunk decks that often do not test until right before dunking.  The One Ring already has plenty of specific hazards (that never see the light of day because Rolled currently works on tested rings).

[Leon]

Great idea. This limits Rolled Down somewhat, but it will probably still be the primary anti-ring card in the game. Please explain yourself if you vote against this.

[Dirhaval]

I voted yes.  Rolled Down the Sea is a wash against Special Rings. I like using them and playing against them.  Minion gold rings have 4 CP and hero gold rings can deceive you if the opponent is getting another ring or just teasing you.  If you do not have a gold ring to discard, he sees your entire hand!
Dirhaval

[Thorsten the Traveller]

Still not voted on this one, haven't made up my mind. I think the idea is ok, but is it the best idea?

Rings that are tested can still roll down to the sea, just ask Isildur...

I might prefer a version where Rolled Down can be played on a comp. that actually has a ring. That way it's more difficult to play it twice (or more) in one turn on an opponent, and you can more easily defend by having a ring in hand.
If you play and test a ring in one turn, which is not that difficult if you're not iffy about the result, and especially if a Ringlore V is made, then this card is useless, and I don't like that.

[Bandobras Took]

That's what other Ring hazards such as the Ring's Betrayal (which is what happened to Isildur) are for.

And Hero dunk decks don't play and test in one turn; it's my suspicion that ICE created this card specifically to make that kind of thing more difficult (only testing at Mount Doom), but it's unfortunately made Rings For Points altogether too weak.

[Konrad Klar]

Suggestion: 3 copies of Will Shaken may be some defense against Rolled Down to The Sea (not in game versus Fallen Wizard of course).

[Bandobras Took]

Yes, but only if you are not, in fact, running Rings, which seems to defeat the whole point.  If rolled said "and your opponent must reveal his hand", then we'd have something, but Will Shaken only works once all your Rings are gone anyway.

[Konrad Klar]

[...]but Will Shaken only works once all your Rings are gone anyway.

Another suggestion: if your company has only one gold ring item (and no other rings), play test card in response to Rolled Down To The Sea.
Then you will not be able to discard a ring and you will be forced to revealing hand.

[Bandobras Took]

Unless the test actually results in the play of a special ring item, in which case it will be discarded when Rolled resolves.

[Konrad Klar]

You are not forced to play special ring item. You can do it, according to result of test.
Therefore, if you have special ring item on Rumours of Ring, this trick still will be working.
Of course it will not be working, if you have ring both in company and on hand (regardless of result of test).

[Bandobras Took]

So, if I understand you, in a Rings For Points deck the best counter to Rolled is to test your rings and then not play Ring Special Items?

[Konrad Klar]

In situation when you have Will Shaken on hand (or preferably three copies).

[Bandobras Took]

As it goes down to the wire, it looks like this one is going to fail by 2%.  I'll still wait until tomorrow to make it official.