[UEP, accepted] Khamul the Ringwraith as an Avatar

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:59 pm

hehe agreed, however, it still makes him a lot safer than Khamul, which was my point!

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:28 am

It's clear people want to see a change to Khamul and the given the subsequent voting thread it would suggest that this is the route of preference. However, maybe there's a few loose ends to tie up or consider prior to testing the UEP:

1. The affect of Ride Against the Enemy used in conjunction with this modified Khamul.

2. The affect of this Khamul on Wizards and their manifestations (i.e. Maia hazards).

Possibly both of these could be considered in some way unbalancing and what I've done is highlight below (with help and advice from Kris and Mark) a possible solution to encompass these points whilst retaining the original flavour of the accepted UEP:

Khamul the Ringwraith DI 4 P/B 9/9
Warrior/Ranger/Diplomat Ringwraith
Unique. Manifestation of Khamul the Easterling. Can use sorcery. -2 direct influence in Heralded Lord mode. +1 prowess in Fell Rider mode. +2 to all body checks (except against any manifestation of a wizard) resulting from failed strikes against Khamul in Black Rider or Fell Rider mode. As your Ringwraith, one Ringwraith follower in his company may be controlled with no influence. You may bring this follower into play during your organization phase.
Home Site: Dol Guldur

I'd hope to hear from all those that voted in this thread as to what they think. Would it be of interest to instill these changes to this UEP?

Tegarend · Post by **Tegarend** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:33 am

I am in favor of this version.

Sly Southerner · Post by **Sly Southerner** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:02 pm

Duplicate post as this topic was being discussed on another thread.

IMHO Ride Against the Enemy is powerful enough without the new Khamul so the +2 body check should not apply.

One thing to bear in mind is there's little to be gained from a Nazgul killing creatures other than those with a *.

There is a benefit in that these creatures cannot come back and attack you again. There are also other possibilities. For example, Khamul could run around slaying an opponent's Roused Dragon factions. He could also try killing his own Dragon at Home or Ahunt to leave a Dragon's Lair with no auto attack. Combined with Khamul Unleashed this would be easy. Khamul could do this using region movement from Dol Guldur to Carn Dum while his other company moves to the Dragon's Lair. Also, against underdeeps strategies a single sideboarded Nameless Thing can hurt badly and be recycled. If Khamul kills it then it wont be coming back.

I am reluctant to vote for a super Khamul that could slay Dragon's, Nameless things, Ents in Search of Entwives etc etc. I just think its to powerful and open to abuse. I would at least restrict the hazard creature body checks to Elf hazard creatures, which would help stick with the theme ICE intended. Alternatively just restrict it to CVCC and forget about the Elf thing since ICE made it up anyway.

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:08 pm

Adrian wrote:Duplicate post as this topic was being discussed on another thread.

IMHO Ride Against the Enemy is powerful enough without the new Khamul so the +2 body check should not apply.

One thing to bear in mind is there's little to be gained from a Nazgul killing creatures other than those with a *.

There is a benefit in that these creatures cannot come back and attack you again. There are also other possibilities. For example, Khamul could run around slaying an opponent's Roused Dragon factions. He could also try killing his own Dragon at Home or Ahunt to leave a Dragon's Lair with no auto attack. Combined with Khamul Unleashed this would be easy. Khamul could do this using region movement from Dol Guldur to Carn Dum while his other company moves to the Dragon's Lair. Also, against underdeeps strategies a single sideboarded Nameless Thing can hurt badly and be recycled. If Khamul kills it then it wont be coming back.

I am reluctant to vote for a super Khamul that could slay Dragon's, Nameless things, Ents in Search of Entwives etc etc. I just think its to powerful and open to abuse. I would at least restrict the hazard creature body checks to Elf hazard creatures, which would help stick with the theme ICE intended. Alternatively just restrict it to CVCC and forget about the Elf thing since ICE made it up anyway.

Ok,

The new wording above would remove the ability with RAtE as it restricts it to Black Rider and Fell Rider modes only.

Ringwraiths can't use Region movement. The idea behind the new Khamul is that you'd be fairly mad to throw creatures willy nilly at Khamul, much in the same way as throwing creatures at an active Balrog with Flame of Udun and items isn't productive. Like the Hog, once ready he's designed to kill stuff. If he gets stopped by the first Ahunt or Ent in Search of Entwives, he's hardly worth the bother. Better to stay with a sneaking Akhorahil or a squatting Hoarmurath. The point is, on his travels these will probably tap Khamul and that might just make the difference between him choosing to slay Cirdan or the defender choosing him to attack Hama for instance.

Around half the resource deck has to be designed around an active RW strat and one simple canceller card or snowstorm/river strat will put to rest any active RW deck other than maybe Akhorahil with his magic. Khamul will still be a weak RW for choice and I doubt will ever reach competitive levels even with this change. Maybe we can test it on GCCG sometime Adrian and see.

Regarding Rouse Dragons, would you really be using Khamul in minion vs minion match ups?? Khamul is designed as a vs hero/FW slayer and he'd be wasted in minion vs minion games. Plus, body checks to kill dragons would still require on average a roll of a 7.

Ringwraiths can't go to the Under-deeps, so the only way a RW will meet a Nameless Thing is at the surface site when DoN is out. Furthermore, any RW in Fell Rider mode is going to make mince of a Nameless Thing. An prowess of 10 and a body of a 4 isn't much of an issue for any active RW.

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Tue May 23, 2006 10:26 am

There may be an issue with the wording of this UEP.  There's a thread in the rules forum discussing the effects of the wording on the two Balrog specific weapons (linky here), which would appear to suggest that defending characters can't actually fail a strike.  Instead, it's possible the strike is simply considered successful when a defender loses in CvCC.

So, if this is the case, any ideas for correcting the terminology?

Here's the original wording:

Khamul the Ringwraith
Unique. Manifestation of Khamul the Easterling. Can use sorcery. -2 direct influence in Heralded Lord mode. +1 prowess in Fell Rider mode. -2 to the body of any Elf character targeted by a strike from Khamul. As your Ringwraith, one Ringwraith follower in his company may be controlled with no influence. You may bring this follower into play during your organization phase.

And here's the current UEP wording:

Khamul the Ringwraith
Unique. Manifestation of Khamul the Easterling. Can use sorcery. -2 direct influence in Heralded Lord mode. +1 prowess in Fell Rider mode. +2 to all body checks resulting from failed strikes against Khamul. As your Ringwraith, one Ringwraith follower in his company may be controlled with no influence. You may bring this follower into play during your organization phase.

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Tue May 23, 2006 11:29 am

Ok, what about:

Khamul the Ringwraith
Unique. Manifestation of Khamul the Easterling. Can use sorcery. -2 direct influence in Heralded Lord mode. +1 prowess in Fell Rider mode. +2 to all body checks resulting from failed strikes against or successful strikes from Khamul. As your Ringwraith, one Ringwraith follower in his company may be controlled with no influence. You may bring this follower into play during your organization phase.

Sly Southerner · Post by **Sly Southerner** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:08 pm

Does this work?:
+2 to all body checks for characters or creatures defeated by Khamul.

Jambo · Post by **Jambo** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:12 pm

Sly Southerner wrote:Does this work?:
+2 to all body checks for characters or creatures defeated by Khamul.

Using 'defeated' implies that the character or creature has already been killed by Khamul.  

I've updated the UEP appropriately so there should be no more ambiguities.

Sly Southerner · Post by **Sly Southerner** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:36 am

Good point.  :D

Dirhaval · Post by **Dirhaval** » Fri May 16, 2008 5:37 am

I do like some improvement to the body check modifier, but to all creatues is too much.  I rather have [-2 body to any character or elf creature facing a strike from Khamul].  Why? Well, if you get good kill MP from creatures, then you may skip CvCC late into the game and win by MP.

If Ride Against the Enemy is not something you want these improvements seen, then restrict the -2 body during the site phase.  I do see how it can be abused to loot hoard sites.

Again, this helps if you are near this Ringwraith. Go to the seas or to the underdeeps and avoid the Ulair.  This Ringwraith does need a tweak, and I am happy its tweak is easy to adjust and find.

Just my thoughts,
Dirhaval