[UEP, accepted] Khamul the Ringwraith as an Avatar

To share and discuss non-standard rules, from the simplest of house rules to the more serious Unofficial Errata Proposals.

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Khamul the Easterling
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Post by Khamul the Easterling » Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:46 pm

Occasionally I do play a Khamul deck, though I don't base it on his special abilities. I also want to point out that a Wizard player has 1 Wizard to choose among five, a Ringwraithg player 1 among 9. Thus, I don't mind if one of them is less "powerful".

henrikbe
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Post by henrikbe » Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:54 am

I vote no.

I don't think it's problematic that Khamul the Ringwraith is a weak card. Lore of the Ages and Gift of Comprehension are pretty weak, but I don't think that's a good enough reason to make a UEP.
Henrik

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:33 pm

I think comparing an avatar card to a card like Gift of Comprehension or Lore of Ages isn't fair. Their importance in the grander scheme of MeCCG is completely different. Nevertheless, I accept there's been an about turn for some here (maybe even myself!), so would a more conservative and minor approach be wiser/better?

For instance, instead of the universal +2 to body checks, how about keeping his existing ability and simply extending it to include Elf hazard creatures. THis would be far more modest and less game changing and also keeps it within the whole "Elf-targeting" theme.

What do you think?

henrikbe
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Post by henrikbe » Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:27 pm

Jambo wrote:For instance, instead of the universal +2 to body checks, how about keeping his existing ability and simply extending it to include Elf hazard creatures. THis would be far more modest and less game changing and also keeps it within the whole "Elf-targeting" theme.

What do you think?
Well, I agree it might be better with a more conservative approach. I like your suggestion, as it tones the Elf-lord down a little too.

However, it's all a question about the purpose of the whole UEP-thing. If we want to balance the game in order to make certain strategies more playable, this UEP is fine. However, if we want a more concervative UEP whose purpose is more or less to fix the stuff ICE didn't have time to fix before they dissapeared, I don't think this UEP is what we want.
Henrik

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Post by Tegarend » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:23 pm

Even though I liked this one, I apparently forgot to vote YES for it. This change still wouldn't make him very 'tourn4ment-br0ken'.

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:38 pm

lol, ye see, it's the people who forget to vote that cause these things to die, get reinvented or indeed suspended. lol ;)

I just suspended this due to the increasing number of no's, its time running out, and then all of sudden one quick yes (i.e. KRIS ) can put it back on track...

I'll unsuspend this one for the time-being to let things progress a little further and see how opinions flow. I'll also see how the other one goes and depending on opinions then withdraw one.

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Sly Southerner
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Post by Sly Southerner » Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:34 pm

I still think that a two modifier to all body checks is too much. What about men with their low bodies? They woudln't stand a chance. I suggested a one modifier instead eartlier in this thread as that might be more balanced if applied to all characters. What do you think about that? 8O

In any case, I would actually rather have my character killed than wounded as I then dont have to go and waste time healing. Also, I dont think ICE intended CvCC to be all that easy to initiate anyway. Sounds more like Magic: The Gathering to me. :wink:

I reserve my vote still, but am leaning towards the Elf-Slayer one.

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Post by Tegarend » Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:41 pm

A) you can just conceal or whatever Khamul. Or run where he can't get you (same places as vs Malady). Or let some scrubs die while your opponent has to put a lot of resources in his deck to find you again (multiple-move cards, mode cards, ...). Tap him & river ...

B) I really don't think this makes a change to the easiness of CVCC initiate. To reach a hero company with a Nazgul is not really that easy I think, and this kind of CVCC will only be used in non-serious casual games - where I'd love to see a character like this!

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Lord Leuber
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Post by Lord Leuber » Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:41 am

I was going to say something, but basically I agree with Kris 100%... :wink:

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Post by Tegarend » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:12 am

Lord Leuber wrote:I was going to say something, but basically I agree with Kris 100%... :wink:
Woohoo!

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:17 am

I 'd encourage everyone who has an opinion on this to vote, if they can. This one hangs on a thread as it approaches its deadline of, um, today.

One more YES or NO will be decisive.

Cheers

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Post by Halbarad » Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:49 pm

I do not think Khamul is on par with any of the more active RW:s, and he is definitely not good at squatting. Therefore, I vote YES for this proposal.

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Sly Southerner
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Post by Sly Southerner » Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:02 pm

Doesn't Adunaphel unleashed already achieve what you wanted? Having seen this card I vote no as it seems to me that ICE didnt want +2 to all body checks to be an easy thing. :?

I know the voting period has ended, but Petter's decisive Yes vote was also outside the voting period. 8O

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Post by Jambo » Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:53 pm

As it turned out, Kris' vote was the decisive one. I simply forgot to add his vote. However, I'll add your "no" vote, since I added Petter's.

What I would say Adrian, is regardless of the bonus Khamul should or shouldn't get to body checks, the real problem of active RWs is simply the difficulty of successfully initiating CvCC combat. A +2 to body checks may seem like an over-powerful ability, however, the problem for him will always be getting to the CvCC situation in the first place. I've played a Khamul deck 3 times and only once been fortunate to initiate CvCC. Even then I ended up tapped and my opponent simply sacrificed a worthless grunt.

You see, unlike Akhorahil who has a multitude of useful magic cards (Deeper Shadow and Sojourn in the Shadows) with which to safely travel around ME, remain untapped and do his stuff versus heroes (Malady and CvCC), Khamul doesn't have that luxury. Unlike the Witch King, his body of 9 makes him all too vulnerable when travelling out in the open. In one of those 3 games he actually got killed on my last turn.

The -2 to an Elf's body just doesn't cut the mustard. If your opponent isn't using Elves, which is quite common, then he's completely wasted. You also mentioned Adunaphel's Unleashed card. Interestingly this serves to emphasize how redundant his current ability is, as another RW with a useful cancelling ability can also be better at killing heroes than Khamul!
Last edited by Jambo on Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Tegarend » Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:56 pm

Bwa, the witch-King isn't that safe at body 12 either, jambo ;)

<- has fond memories of slaying the Witch-King with Peath

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